flippers y/n has the greatest impact on board length

sf_firestarter · Post by **sf_firestarter** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:06 pm

Over the course of the last two days at OB with 2x overhead surf I realized something. That at least for me, the single greatest factor determining necessary board length in response to wave height is the use of flippers.

After my achilles surgery I've had to go without flippers for the first time ever. Over the course of the last two month I've become accustomed to being without flippers and really didn't see any great disadvantage using my current board. That was until this week, last night being denied in surf 2x overhead and lacking the paddling speed to get into the largest sets or into position caused

. I've been out with flippers on that same board in 3x overhead without issue. I would now guestimate that the use of flippers or not can account for as much as an addition or subtraction of 6" of needed board length for the same rider.

Agree?

TC · Post by TC » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:04 pm

sf_firestarter I would have to agree. I ride a 5’8” Freeline quad fish here on the central coast and have no problems out in large overhead surf with fins. When I have tried the same board in sizeable surf with out fins I felt like a wimp and could not get into the wave in a timely manner… i.e. I ate it or I could not get it. It felt like I would need a 6’0” or more to drop into the same wave. Once you are up the 5’8” rides really well and I am very happy with the board fins included. The other advantage of the shorter board with less foam is it is a lot easer to duck dive in that same large surf. Cheers TC

ezak · Post by **ezak** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:20 pm

How about cup holders?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33609475/ns ... weird_news

kidrock · Post by **kidrock** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:30 pm

...or we can just chuck our 5'8'' boards in favor of 6'6'' tunaboats. Who needs swimfins?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:13 am

Now I am laughing, too.

eqKneelo · Post by **eqKneelo** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:07 am

SF- Yes, you're right.

But it's not all about length... just flotation.
My 1st two Flashy's were 6'2" and 6'4", and although I loved them, I couldn't catch waves without at least short flippers as easily as I hoped. I figured it was "pilot error" and I just didn't have the paddle power.

However, after I got a couple small wave boards (5'8" PigFish and a 6'0" Chop Tail) that had loads of foam hidden along the stringer, I never wore flippers. (Not like you need flippers for waves under head-high anyway)
After talking to Bruce, my next few boards are the same length (6'2" and 6'5") but they have alot more foam... and I love them! Haven't surfed waves over DOH, but so far so good.
(I always have my shorties with me though... sometimes the crowds/currents/energy level outweighs they performance advantage.

)

Two other things to think about:
- Some boards are shaped with "arm paddle" ability in mind. Their outline makes this possible. Of all the boards I've ridden, it seems Parkes, Islands, and Flashpoints paddle different. They don't want to be "kicked" into waves. They plane better when you are "up on the board".
- Guys who surf without fins hunt waves differently.
Closely watching Gavin and Karl and Jaime and MattyG in Santa Cruz the last few years, those guys sit super deep and watch the wave jack untill the last possible second. A lot of us see a wave and turn and just try to catch it, but those guys are a little more in tune cause they know one foot to the left or right can be the difference.
It's also why Gavin seems faster than everyone else. He is catching the wave at the "perfect" moment every time, and his 1st turn is already Mach10.

KidRock- Baden Smith rides a 6'6" shortboard... and trust me when I say, no one on this thread is half the the surfer he is.

Smokin Rock · Post by **Smokin Rock** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:27 am

i take my FP out without flippers occasionally when it's small. it was difficult at first but like Ed mentioned you have to really focus on position more and hey.....building arm strength while focusing more on position is all good right? makes a small day more interesting.
like anything else....fundamentals.
one thing i noticed right away was that i had this annoying habit of sliding back on my board a good 6" right before takeoff. this effectively made me miss many waves and i asked myself why the hell i was doing this. it was so ingrained i had a really hard time getting rid of it.
the next time i took out my quad fish wearing my blunts i thought about what i was doing and it came to me that by wearing fins you effectively increase your board length in a purely planing sense and the sliding back right before takeoff was increasing that length even more......getting me in even earlier! i ride a (approx) 6 foot board mostly and with legs and fins it's like i'm riding a 7-8 foot board.
i would have never even realized this if i hadn't had a open mind and tried something new. which......interesting enough is a trait the rest surfing world commonly attributes to us kneeboarders

if they only knew

i'll add that Baden could give a f*ck what anyone else is riding

fooj · Post by **fooj** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:41 am

Bleu cheese, chooky, bleu cheese.

Smokin Rock · Post by **Smokin Rock** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:46 pm

stanky bleu cheese

BTW i just noticed i used "effectively" twice in one paragraph........lame

eqKneelo · Post by **eqKneelo** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:41 pm

Smokin Rock wrote:i take my FP out without flippers occasionally when it's small. it was difficult at first but like Ed mentioned you have to really focus on position more and hey.....building arm strength while focusing more on position is all good right? makes a small day more interesting.
like anything else....fundamentals.
one thing i noticed right away was that i had this annoying habit of sliding back on my board a good 6" right before takeoff. this effectively made me miss many waves and i asked myself why the hell i was doing this. it was so ingrained i had a really hard time getting rid of it.
the next time i took out my quad fish wearing my blunts i thought about what i was doing and it came to me that by wearing fins you effectively increase your board length in a purely planing sense and the sliding back right before takeoff was increasing that length even more......getting me in even earlier! i ride a (approx) 6 foot board mostly and with legs and fins it's like i'm riding a 7-8 foot board.
i would have never even realized this if i hadn't had a open mind and tried something new. which......interesting enough is a trait the rest surfing world commonly attributes to us kneeboarders
if they only knew
i'll add that Baden could give a f*ck what anyone else is riding

Good stuff, Rock.
It's amazing what we learn about our surfing when we get out of our comfort zones.

Smokin Rock · Post by **Smokin Rock** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:41 pm

there is something in every good surfers style or board design that if you look at it and break it down.....can benefit your own surfing.
one of the reasons i love trips to the South Coast is to be around and surf with so many good kneeriders. the great waves are cool too.

you don't have to change your whole trip.
just be open to a new trip

years ago Fooj sent me a Simon vid. i thought f%ck! thats hot.

who wouldn't want a little of that in their own surfing?
my new goal is to keep my browline perfectly horizontal at all times like Damo! not so easy! i think he must have a gyroscope in his head.

Eric Carson · Post by **Eric Carson** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:51 pm

I'm going to surf the next 6 months without swim fins.

fooj · Post by **fooj** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:12 pm

Eric, if after three weeks you find it really sucks don't feel bad sneaking the ol' churchies back on. You do wear churchies? I tried acting like a man from down unda a while back and found myself asking "why"? Never could answer myself satisfactorily.

Eric Carson · Post by **Eric Carson** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:00 pm

I currently use Da Fins and Vipers. In the past 4 years, I've used fins 99% of the time, so I can be checked off in the "Full On believer" category.
If I had to guess, I would say that half the guys in Oz wear fins-please correct me if I'm wrong.
I want to do this to see if I really need the fins. My boards are are 5'10" to 6'1'.

eqKneelo · Post by **eqKneelo** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:31 pm

Eric-
I'd say your right... 50% of Aussies and 99.99999% of Americans.
Like everything, it takes time and work... and letting yourself get out of your comfort zone.
Do it for "fun". Try something different. (Isn't that the whole point of Kneeboaring?!?!). And realize 99% of the people in the line-up with you are catching waves without fins... why can't you?

Once you get a few sessions without, start realizing the benefits... less weight, no drag, and the ability to use your feet to control turns like these:
[albumimg]19388[/albumimg]
[albumimg]9744[/albumimg]
[albumimg]7387[/albumimg]

Especially in Florida, you might experience some real benefits.
However, you're gonna need to FLOAT. If your boards don't float you, they'll be a beeotch to paddle.