Fish vs fish (Classic old school vs fins fwrd new school)

DrStrange · Post by **DrStrange** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:34 am

Been having a bit of a fish obsession (maybe just being sucked into the morphogenic field of the fad) and would love to hear from anyone who has ridden both, on the pros and cons of each. Also, re: fins back type twin keel vs quad. Are all the variations from early Lis trading speed to get manuverability/tigher more vert abiility?

Actually I'd love to ride and check them out. No $ at present to buy and try and unfortunately being of non-average body size I need to ride small ones to really get any feel at all. My understanding of the "classic" fish is eyes to top of head size which for me would be 4' 11" to 5' 3".

Along these lines, if anyone knows of an oldie but goodie (can be very beat up and in need of repair as long as not severly delammed and water logged) I could well be a buyer since it would have to be Cheep. Again, like she said, size does count...

ScottMac · Post by **ScottMac** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:26 pm

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm

Interesting to see your post as I'm also in bit of Fish obsession. I'm referring to the original, old-school classic Steve Lis Fish - 5'5", 21" width, 3.5" nose rocker, flat tail, flat bottom, eggish rails from nose to about a 1.5ft or so from the twin tails where they harden up the edge, twin keels (9" x 5" - parallel and fully foiled), 12" between the pin tails. I'll be making some minor changes, but nothing outrageous.

I'm shaping and glassing my Fish using a pair of epoxy bonded 2" thick 1# density eps cores with a "sandwich" 6oz glass "stringer", RR epoxy, 1x6oz bottom and 2x6oz top, glassed-on ply keel fins.

Be glad to send you (or anyone else) the complete planshape info (in a PDF file), for ya to check out. All the shaping info needed is there.

As far as how they surf - the last time I was on one was in the mid 70's and it was a fun ride for sure. LOTS of forward drive. With keel fins I doubt it'll do acrobatics well - certainly not for me.

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:01 pm

I also have a Blast F2K. I and the board are 5-10. I'm 165 lbs. I rode the old style fishes years ago and loved them. The Blast is simply the best board I've ever ridden in 30 years + of k.b.ing. The better the wave the better it works. I have lots of fun on Australian style 3 fins too, but if I could only have one board to ride for the rest of my life, I'd happily take the Blast.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:16 pm

My main kneeboard is also a 5'10" Blast quad pintail - I'm 5'10", 165# as well ... a great board that can do it all for me. And Bud's a terrific guy, to boot!

DrStrange · Post by **DrStrange** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:44 pm

Thanks to all so far. Yeah Bud is great and a mighty fine shaper as proven by my Stubb. I think part of what gets me about the old fish is nearly all my stand up boards since about 1978 had similar rocker though most had more or it. One "gun" for Santa Cruz was 6' 9" and flat rocker behind the wide point with only about 4 inches in front. Also had single to double concave and bevel under rails as Bud mentioned in another post re: shaping a retro model. Had soft rails throughout That board had a single, small high aspect fin pretty far forward and was totally surfed on the rails standing forward on the board. The others were all in San Deigo and had more like 6" of rocker and a lot of vee under the front foot ending at front of single big semi keel dolphin like fin. Thin round rails in front (soft belly) blending into razor sharp filed resin edge in back. Odd boards and fun to ride. Very squirty and fast but sort of small sweet spot for standing.

The Lis style sounds like the ultimate finale of these boards with so much speed you must ride on your knees.

Friend of mine has an old Wilderness board shaped by Richie West (GG design I think) That is also totally flat behind the forward placed wide point with single deep, wide concave. Thin round rails with tucked edge. Hella fast but super stiff and awkward on late hollow drops. Tends to catch edges up front and you kind of have to sink the tail and stall/pivot to cut back unless you have a lot of room for a BIG round turn.

For those with F2K Blast Fish: If you take it out in shorter mushier waves and beach break how does it handle? Still fun or stiff and boggy?

fooj · Post by **fooj** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:18 pm

I have 2 F2Ks. One 5'7" tuned for 4-6 Hawaiian. The other a 5'8" for big. I find that when I ride the smaller one in marginal conditions I often simply run out of wave (I won't mention the 5'8", haven't ridden it much). It has a longer turn response time, much more deliberate, less reflexive. The board is fast and the turns produce copious amounts of Gs but the trade-off is no bing, bang, boom swivelassin in pinball conditions. There is a better tool for that job.

DrStrange · Post by **DrStrange** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:26 am

no bing, bang, boom swivelassin in pinball conditions. There is a better tool for that job.

Stubb Vector

DrStrange · Post by **DrStrange** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:11 am

Don't know how real this is in terms of today's versions but this is from Blast website re: the original fish

One could ride the basic Lis Fish in any decent California waves 2ft and up. Then take the same board to the North Shore and charge 10ft. Pipe. Slightly longer versions were built for places like Sunset and Laniakea

I'm sure they were pretty stiff in small mushy beach break and loosen up as the jiuce increases but because of the planing ability and inherent speed, can be ridden in almost anything and have fun. That would be one helluva range for one board

budman · Post by **budman** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:07 am

I have a classic 1973 Lis inspired fish shaped by protege Jeff Widener.I have had success in really anything over two feet with this template.Its true it takes on a new dimension in overhead surf but FISH were really designed as a cure-all for typical California summers. I dont ride it anymore,its a wall board in near mint condition but I recall many Newport sessions as well as big Blacks sessions and it was insane to ride. I will bring this gem to the Newport gathering next week.'
Bud

DrStrange · Post by **DrStrange** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:18 pm

Dang, too bad Newport is so far from me. Used to surf there a lot back in the day. There used to be a store off the parking lot by the pier that only sold penny candy! You could really get ill for not much $ after a surf.

Do you not ride it anymore just because i.e. for a change or something you like better now?

lowrider · Post by **lowrider** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:52 pm

Rob,

you have a pm

Andy