toofast3 wrote:I don`t understand the goofy foot thing when it comes to KBing. But for me, I have no problem going either way. I don`t mean for that to be a cocky statement. But what I do notice is that when I go left, i`m more aggressive. When I go right, I can do stronger power moves. I have surfed with other KBers and 99 % of the time, they only want to go one way. Thats fine, i`ll go the other... Would it be fair to say that each of us has a strong and a weak side ??
Interesting toofast, I'm OK either way too - just different - I can do the same things going both ways - (except airs) but it feels so different. I do feel like I wind up better on lefts using my shoulders and hips to power throught the turn - on a right I use exclusively my hips and rails to turn and am less snappy and slidey and more carvey. I can generate more speed through my turns on lefts and tend to bog and squirt turns a bit going right.
But I have a mate who is a really hot kneeboarder on rights, but can barely do a decent turn on left.
- thanks for the tips - might help me become more well-rounded kneelo.
Red is on target. At some point in the distant past, I mentally connected my backhand with forehand when standing up, and suddenly I could pull off big cutbacks either way, bottom turns opened up, etc. Its as if I just need to fool myself into thinking that I'm going forehand while on my backhand, and vv, so I could reverse direction without a mental block. That seems to have translated to kneeboarding.
That being said, I am weaker on my left than right, and occasionally feel the dif when trying to pop a hard turn or cutback.
"All I want in this life of mine is some good clean fun
All I want in this life and time is some hit and run"
Lowell George
The hips lead all great athletic movements. If you get them into position to lead the turn, then the turn will be quick and powerful. Knee positon on the board may affect the ability to use hip power.
It seems to me that people who surf both lefts and rights all the time do not have the same problem as some one who surfs rights or lefts 364 days a year and has to go the other way once in a while.
If a person surfed right point breaks every day of his life he or she might
get their knees farther apart than a person who surfed a beach break and had to go both directions in every session.
Paul Wuslich is a good example. He surfs the right point breaks of Santa Cruz almost exclusively. His knee depressions on his boards are almost a foot apart, lengthwise. I have photos of him surfing small lefts in San Francisco in the 80's totally backwards on the wave with his flippers dragging in the wave. He had a great off the top on big lefts that year, also. His whole style is set up for right tubes and he is quite a good tube rider. In the last 10 years or so, I have seen him face the wave on lefts if he thought he was going to get a tube.
Tom Curren moves around on his board depending whether he is in the tube of out on the face performing his stylish cutbacks. His back foot moves quite a bit. It makes me wonder if we should be moving our knees depending on the situation and if we already do so and do not know it. Maybe we do not have to do so as we can just lean our weight around depending on the wave's characteristics.
Looking at my boards, I notice that the left knee dent is much smaller than the right knee dent. The right knee area has dents all over in a cluster. I am assuming that I move my right knee a little depending on the situation. I surf the same spots as Paul; rights in Santa Cruz and lefts and rights in S.F.
Getting back to the original point; hip power leads all great athletic movements, Your knee position will determine which movements you are best at doing. You signature move is probably determined by where you surf, the equipment you ride and how you learned to adapt to the kind of surf you surf most often. It would make sense that you would find the best knee postition for the waves you ride most often. Being able to change for different conditions and different boards would seem to make a more versatile surfer.
Having said all this, remember, moving a knee an inch can make a huge difference in using the hips. I am not talking about huge differences in knee placements.
Last edited by Bob on Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
I used to surf beachbreaks mostly & was (fairly) happy going left and right (not at the same time.. Last 5 yrs ive exclusively surfed a left pointbreak, which being a leftie feels like my forehand side & I think subconciously my stance has adjusted so I face the wave slightly. Im in JBay at the moment, surfing decent rights for the 1st time in ages, and boy do I suck....its embarrasing! anyway back to the lefts next week....
"P.S Just a comment on the Aussie knees wide stance. Its what I was told to do as a grommet - wide stance - better balance - more potential energy can be created by winding up the hips through the turns. Also it stops you from riding with that kooky gaylord seagull style - which results from having a narrow base - because then you need to use your arms to balance not unlike a tight-rope walker."
and...
"Getting back to the original point; hip power leads all great athletic movements...
Having said all this, remember, moving a knee an inch can make a huge difference in using the hips. I am not talking about huge differences in knee placements."
Violent agreement? I think so...
Knee placement is a bit of 'body english' that accentuates turns, and pressure dings are manifestations over time of that applied pressure... depends, like said, on types of waves and body english.
This is the static view of the stance... then, there's the dynamic view.
The rate at which the potential energy is converted to kenetic determines the quality of the turn.
I've seen all too much evidence of me uncoiling to get my hips square with vertical too soon, ending up in the "kooky gaylord seagull style" with the added touch of a 'c'mon-I-wanna-lay-you' hip thrust forward.
All of the potential energy was lost due to premature uncoiling (I know, it's a 'personal' problem...)
Knee position provides the anchor, hips drive the turn, and the amount of uncoil is a regulator.
A few good and different examples are:
Simon
Barry
Matt G.
Gigs
There's a lot more about the dynamics, like position on board vs. board design... wave type... body type...
"Truisms:"
- Knee position determines ability to utilize hips
- "hip power leads all great athletic movements... "
- Ability to utilize hip power dynamically is regulated by the amount of coil kept / uncoil applied
So let me get this right...hips up and twisting?, arms askew and flapping?,....how about low tight mass with minimul shift from calf to calf, weighting and unweighting not so much effort, direct feed to the necessary pinpoint, but thats just me..ain't going for air...left or right depends on hours logged in that direction, knees do shift to face the wave.
BOB SAYS=It makes me wonder if we should be moving our knees depending on the situation and if we already do so and do not know it.
Right on the money to both....I've watched every video,and every Surfing photo on ''all'' the KBing links available to us,which includes updates.
Look closely, and it becomes evident that it's what the better surfers are doing,positional moves which are''functional''.
And it's those little adjustments that will take surfing to another level.
Ya surf..ya don't surf..OK,there's that.On the other hand the way to another level is thru analysis,and posts such as this provide the stimulus.,then it's just a matter of practice...and a few untimely face plants..
Lots of kneelos shift around on take-off to find the sweet spot - its just that once my stance is established, I don't move - theres so much going on when you surf - its hard to concentrate onanything other than riding the wave.
My standup mate told me that a slight adjustment in arm position during take-off fixed his back-hand bottom turn. So I tried it - when going right I moved my right hand further up the deck as I pushed to my knees - and in doing so - It kind of put me on my backhand and opened up my turns - it worked. But I just couldn't sustain it - because it was only appropriate for certain types of waves and stuffed my tube-riding.
Maybe I need to write a few tips on the nose of my board to remind me to try some of these body position alterations.
I think you should keep hip waggling for Salsa - using it as a basis for initiating kneeboarding turns is going to get you into trouble - most likely you'll end up with "Old man's arse" - a situation where your weight is all over the place (hips and arse off one side, upper body off other rail) Your board gets confused by the indecisive weight distribution and invariably buries.
I'd suggest rethinking the Salsa concept into something Blacker - groove with the shoulders - initiate turns with the upper body - the hips will follow and the knees will follow them - and of course the board will follow.
This will help "open up your stance" fore- or back-hand. If you get your outside arm pointing where you want to go you are, in effect, changing your weight distribution, coiling your body and activating the muscles you'll need to pull the turn off. Your chest will also open up to the wave so you can see where you're going, rather than looking over your shoulder.
Damn - I just gave away the core concept of my future book on the art of kneeboarding! Don't employ it and then whip my ass in the next contest.
On second thought - do employ it - let's try to improve together. You can practice turns on the living room carpet - also helps get those "love handles" activated - you need those muscles for kneeboarding.
Postscript: I know Simon suggests steering the board with the knees and following through with the feet. It certainly works for him! I don't think I have his natural athletic ability - I need a more mechanistic approach (aka kneeboarding for beginners*)
*35 years on a kneeboard and still a beginner - durn! Could be on my tombstone.
Excellent analysis SFK-Don, Red and others. I'm learning. Analysis like that can lead to better KBing.
Speaking of "kooky gaylord seagull style and narrow knee stance"...I'm sure it was just an unfortunate moment at the time the camara clicked, but thats what I think of when I see the welcome pic on our site.
yogisurf wrote:
Speaking of "kooky gaylord seagull style and narrow knee stance"...I'm sure it was just an unfortunate moment at the time the camara clicked, but thats what I think of when I see the welcome pic on our site.
Good one yogi - I noticed that as well.
Red, thanks for your analysis - my best turns are initiated through my shoulders - but when I go right the dynamics change - I seem to bury my arm and use it as a pivot point to rotate around and don't wind up with my shoulders and really have to drag my arse around to get rotation. If only it was as easy to remove as it is to notice.
Red, you just touched on something else where we're in violent agreement.
When I refer to 'uncoil,' that can happen by releasing the drive by extension or displacement... like you're saying about the hip wagging.
I like what you're adding about shoulders...
Earlier comment about (paraphrased) remaining tight... from the toe knuckles to the knee knots offer another tool... kinda like Red was saying about Simon.
Consider the focal points of footboarders with two feet vs. the length of the leg...
I too am always a grom, and alway appreciate the insights.
How would you know what boards goes better, when you replace your boards quicker than I change my socks.
What the guy talking about exploding off the lip, is that a reference to spontaneous human combustion lip bashing. I hope that never happens to me.
I just wanna get some waves, have some fun, and hope there's no body parts falling off that I have to go looking for.
Last 5 yrs ive exclusively surfed a left pointbreak, which being a leftie feels like my forehand side & I think subconciously my stance has adjusted so I face the wave slightly. Im in JBay at the moment, surfing decent rights for the 1st time in ages, and boy do I suck....its embarrasing! anyway back to the lefts next week....
