Gemini Kneeboards

toofast3 · Post by **toofast3** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:33 pm

Since we are back on topic... Yes, I do like my board and I know its draw backs. I think the design is good, but it`a design that won`t sell. To different and the masses aren`t ready for something so different. Again, I shaped mine and if I had known what I have learned from this site, it would have been longer and a little wider. A few yrs ago when I shaped the board, I believe it cost me a little over 300.00. Not much of a investment or should I say a experinment.
I still have 1 more design that I want to experiment with....

kidrock · Post by **kidrock** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:20 am

trowt wrote:personally, i love the pickle fork. i've always hated the effects the brine (sweet gerkins are my favorite) had on my naturally soft hands. especially now that i'm aging it woulda been a killer. thanks Mr. Picklefork Maker!

StupidTee
PS i wont try and ride it though, waaaaay to squirley and doesnt float worth a damn!

classic.

C.P.Odom · Post by **C.P.Odom** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:43 pm

Martin,

I may have surfed WindanSea with the same guy; he was on a Bessel Picklefork and he shreads.

skansand · Post by **skansand** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:47 pm

probably get into waves really easy with the added surface area in the nose,

id say the concave in the nose probably works for a second or two when the boards just starting to plane ,adds lift and is ineffective thereafter until the rider does a turn and the nose starts to dig...

working more like "spoon" in the nose of a longboard??

id try one built for mushy waves...not interested in riding one in gnarly slabs like the rock though..

i fell on the nose of my flashpoint the other day after a turn, it hurt!

....cpOdom

talkin about Tim Bessel? didnt he shape kneeboards back in the day

red · Post by **red** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:06 pm

Best Kneelos in the world ride boards shaped by kneelos...

Interesting comment. Probably a narrow definition of best, I imagine. I can think of half a dozen absolutely great kneeboarders who ride boards by standup shapers or who shape their own out of prefernce. Names you may not have heard of like Tim Cadwell, Stan Kofoed, Phil Chadwick, Pete Fairweather, James Anderson, Dean Bould, etc., - guys who are absolutely among the best.
Edit I thought I'd add that Baden Smith rides boards shaped by a standup

Experiment. Find a shaper you can work with (even if that has to be yourself) and do whatever you want
Seems to me they laughed when GG took his board out of the cover, but when he started to play...

I thought kneeboarding was based on innovation - because kneeboarders are not of the 'one of a herd' mentality.

ezak · Post by **ezak** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:17 pm

Hey Skansand,

Yeah, he shaped kneeboards for Sunset surfboards a long time ago. He shaped me one a few years ago that I still have. I like it alot when the surf is good and glassy.
(board is 5'10" x 22" x 2 3/4")

board section pics:
album_showpage.php?pic_id=6452

album_showpage.php?pic_id=6451

Erik

Mark Ramirez · Post by **Mark Ramirez** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:41 pm

Eric, I have a 6'0" Bessell kneeboard, and Tim was shaping lots of kneeboards in '71. Friends from Windan... used to ride them alot. But one of my favorite shaper for a long time is Skip Frye, who in my opion can shape anything from longboards, shortboards, kneeboards, etc. I've had several kneeboards from him over the years when he and Hank Warner used to own Harry's in P.B. I currently have 2 boards from him, and now his boards now can go for thousands of dollars, when you sell them.

___________Mark.

eqKneelo · Post by **eqKneelo** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:19 pm

Hi Red-

Interesting comment. Probably a narrow definition of best

Supposed to be. An attempt to re-focus our limited resources back into the Kneelo Community.
Also, the level of surfing here in the US in no where near that in Oz... and lack of good equipment has been a major factor.

Of course all those guys you mentioned rip... but how much exposure do shapers in Oz have to great Kneeboarding and great Kneeboards?... Probably a lot more than shapers in the US.

You're spot on with Baden... and I'll go one better: Gigs.

Both those guys can get boards anywhere... but they are pretty much "shapers" themselves... they simply contract out the work.
There is not an once of foam out of place on either of their boards... their fins are placed at exact points... and they can spot a "dog" a mile off.
(And BTW... their boards could not be more different.)
These guys have a LIFETIME of experience.
One night at the worlds and bunch of guys came over to Gigs and my hotel lugging their quivers and had Gigs inspect each board... about 30 in all... and in was fascinating.
He'd pick up the board and start telling it's owner everything that was right and wrong with the shape hand how it effected the performance.
And he was spot on.
We joked it would be a great Dr. Phil parody (Dr. Gigs- Kneelo Healer)

I thought kneeboarding was based on innovation - because kneeboarders are not of the 'one of a herd' mentality.

This is the tough part... but isn't "not of the 'one of the herd' mentality" simply a clique of it's own? Just another "mentality"?
And if all these great surfers and shapers have left the site because they find it uninspiring, isn't it time to re-focus the sites energy into the things it's founders are passionate about? (Progressive Surfing, Contests, Photography.)
I'm asking you, Red, because I respect your opinion.
Thank you.

frankfqr · Post by **frankfqr** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:05 pm

Mark, Skip Frye mentored Lis. There was definatly a mutual admiration. When Frye shapes kneeboards he leans toward a Lis template and when Lis shapes, his rails honor Frye's approach. Those are some beautiful creations. EQ----your last post was insightful, and with that approach those insights should bring enlightened responce. Your "Proposal" is a solution, many facets. Time will tell.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:20 pm

Nice to see this thread back on board design, guys. I'm getting a lot more benefit from this; keep up this good work.

MALLEE BULL · Post by **MALLEE BULL** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:55 pm

CENSOR WORKING OVERTIME

JUST A LITTLE BIT OF XTC
GOOD TO SEE ITS BACK ON TRACK

red · Post by **red** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:17 pm

Nice response, Ed

Yes, I believe that lack of modern equipment held back U.S kneeboarding between the 80's and 00's. With exposure to good gear and all the kneeboard videos, it's just a matter of time before the level jumps up (I'm sure that's happening already, based on the groms that came over to PI). We'll see in NZ in 2009.

I suspect that many standup shapers have a mental idea of how a kneeboard is ridden - and they are invariably incorrect. They overestimate the pressure we can put on the tail and underestimate the amount of rail to rail power we exert. A good point to start with is to tell the standup shaper that they need to think "heavy front foot; big upper body surfer". This will get them thinking foam forward and thin tails, which will be half the battle. Get them to shape a pintail and the outline will be OK, and their standard shortboard rocker will be close enough (if their rocker is any good to start with)
...and then they get to fin placement...
but that's another story

Pickleforks may allow more parallel rails up front and less nose to swing around, so it could be a viable outline for a kneeboard - but remember that we tend to bury the board from tail to a couple of inches off the nose ([/img]http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o155 ... n%20%20%20),%20so%20we%20need%20to%20rail%20up%20there%20to%20work%20off%20during%20turns%20-%20most%20surfers%20tend%20to%20turn%20'nose%20up',%20so%20the%20front%201/3%20of%20the%20board%20is%20unneeded.%20%20Just%20my%200.02c[/img]

red · Post by **red** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:17 pm

Nice response, Ed

Yes, I believe that lack of modern equipment held back U.S kneeboarding between the 80's and 00's. With exposure to good gear and all the kneeboard videos, it's just a matter of time before the level jumps up (I'm sure that's happening already, based on the groms that came over to PI). We'll see in NZ in 2009.

I suspect that many standup shapers have a mental idea of how a kneeboard is ridden - and they are invariably incorrect. They overestimate the pressure we can put on the tail and underestimate the amount of rail to rail power we exert. A good point to start with is to tell the standup shaper that they need to think "heavy front foot; big upper body surfer". This will get them thinking foam forward and thin tails, which will be half the battle. Get them to shape a pintail and the outline will be OK, and their standard shortboard rocker will be close enough (if their rocker is any good to start with)
...and then they get to fin placement...
but that's another story

Pickleforks may allow more parallel rails up front and less nose to swing around, so it could be a viable outline for a kneeboard - but remember that we tend to bury the board from tail to a couple of inches off the nose (

- shameless self promotion

), so we need to rail up there to work off during turns - most surfers tend to turn 'nose up', so the front 1/3 of the board is unneeded. Just my 0.02c

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:24 pm

"Mark, Skip Frye mentored Lis."

John Mel also shaped with Skip and also taught Lis a few things.

RT · Post by RT » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:41 pm

Surfhorn, finally a mention of Mel. Here, here! A devoted rider of John's boards for nearly 30 years, no complaints. Would be nice to hear more about his early years.

RT

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Gemini Kneeboards

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off thread big time....