How long is too long? Anyone reach a limit yet?

red · Post by **red** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:15 pm

Tom Linn wrote:All I can say is my son Chris keeps telling me "go smaller Dad". Less volume and shorter. I'm resisting taking him shorter than 5'6" and 31 sq liters. Meanwhile, his stand up friend paddles out on a 5'3" , 19 " wide twig. Both of these guys get more waves than me at overhead Jalama a few weeks ago. Neither wears fins.

Kneeboards are pigs to paddle

red · Post by **red** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:20 pm

eqKneelo wrote:Hey Red,
How wide is that board? How thick? How many fins?
And how far would you place the fins up?

23.5" wide
Pretty much same template as my 6'0" pintails (16" nose and tail)
2 1/4 or so thick. Very fine rails.
Thruster.
20-21" up for rail fins and tail fin about 8" back from that, depending how far the rails are from the stringer.

red · Post by **red** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:32 pm

While I remember, I think the bottom you choose is important. I've had long boards that were over rockered and over veed, built on the assumption that there would be a need to shed power. Never been caught behind sections so much in my life.

I use a pretty standard rocker stretched out to 7'0" (5" or so nose lift and 2 1/2" or so tail lift.)
I like flat bottoms because they behave well when there is a bit of chop or bump. Nothing worse that being bumped off half way through a big bottom turn. For a lightweight like me, concaves, especially deep ones, are not forgiving enough in chop. Bigger guys can probably seat a concave better.
I put subtle vee between the fins to loosen the tail up.

analbirth · Post by **analbirth** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:25 pm

Hey Tom, how old are you and how old are your son & his mate? The answer is probably right there

Tom Linn · Post by **Tom Linn** » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:26 pm

I'm 58, 6" 170 lbs

Chris is 22, 145 lbs, 5'9

I refuse to use age as an excuse.

analbirth · Post by **analbirth** » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:19 pm

Yeah mate i hear ya but only because i have my hearing aid in

I'm accepting that age is a factor and increasing my boards thickness to match mine. It helps a lot.

eqKneelo · Post by **eqKneelo** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:02 pm

There should be a header in the design forums.
"Ride what works for you, in your opinion... but don't expect anyone to agree with you."

All I can say is my son Chris keeps telling me "go smaller Dad". Less volume and shorter.

Well, then the question becomes "How's he surfing?' and "Can we see an example?'

Look, I think the design forums always get bogged down or devolve into nastiness because everyone's ego gets wrapped up in their surfing.
It's all about having fun... its the JOY OF SURFING... but people seem to make the leap: "I'm having fun... so i rip."

Sorry. We know who rips, so understand you're welcome to your opinions, but your surfing will be compared to their surfing.

I personally have been working with Bruce Hart for years because he shapes for a handful of the best guys in the world and one of his surfers (2x World Champ Kyle Bryant) is my size.
I approach board design with the attitude "relative to those guys, I suck... how do i get my surfing closer to their level?"
That's how i form my opinions. Learn from a master shaper who shapes for some of the best guys in the world.

However... and it's only my opinion... but I gotta say it baffles me when people get so adamant about length and volume NOT working. That it's NOT a factor in the performance aspects of the best surfers in the world.
And i could list endless examples;
- Simon's Videos
- World Title results
- Gavin coming to America in 2007 and 2008 and putting on a clinic
- The videos posted on Legless of Chayne and Albert
- Chris Beresford coming outta the woodwork the last two years and completely dominating the Titles in below average surf on a VERY long VERY thick board that he usually dominates massive scary BLACKS on.
- ect ect ect

So, ride whatever you want.
If you wanna ride a short flat board... GO DO IT. SHAKAS!
Nobody is judging you. Nobody cares.

If you wanna make a couter argument, AWESOME!!!! but give us facts... don't tell us or post frame grabs, get the videos or win the trophies.
Show us it works... and we'll be all ears.

Otherwise, just let those of us who aspire to surf at the highest level possible (even if our ability will always be a great handicap

) discuss ideas in a single forum sub topic.

Cheers

P.S. I got spit out of a full dry shorebreak barrel kneeriding my NINE FOOT 3.5" THICK LONGBOARD THIS MORNING!!!!
Sky's the limit!!!

MWROBERTSON · Post by **MWROBERTSON** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:38 pm

Ed and all,

I would like to chime in as well.

In my experience and depending upon where you surf, this can have a big influence on board type and length. Overall volume and thickness & or thinness are huge factors too. Most obvious are a riders height, weight and body type. I'm 5'10", 205pds and most of my all around boards are about that size. Oddly, as of late I got on a thin 6'2", channel bottom Flashpoint and it has been working great in three foot plus surf. On the other hand, it's hard to beat my old 5'9" Blast-Stubb when it's about that size and smaller.

In regard to the surf, obviously the more power and length of a wall on a wave the longer one can go in a board. I notice this while surfing in Hawaii and indo. Fast moving waves over reefs allow for this freedom to move up in length and a bit or more.

Where I surf most often is HB/Newport. It's usually small, sectiony beach break. (Note: we have had some great waves as of late where any board could be properly tested) Short radius turns are needed to really enjoy the waves. Too much length and I can feel bogged down and sluggish.

Consider the video clip on Surfline from a renowned So. Cal shaper, Matt Bilos. He shapes stand-ups for the pros but some of the same concepts are brought up in his discussion on what he will shape for each individual rider.

The best thing about kneeboarders is that most are clever, creative and introspective into their surfing. If a guy is riding a sled but having fun that's his option. If someone aspires to surf at that A+ level and compete there, that is another option too. Whatever the case, I'm enjoying riding new board designs and seeing where I can take it.

MR-

JohnS · Post by **JohnS** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:12 pm

I was looking at Buddy's website today and was reading about what he says about his Blast big wave boards:

http://www.blastsurfdesigns.com/blast-b ... neeboards/

He talks about how both his gun designs and his shorter big wave fish designs are effective depending upon what you like. The bottom contours of the boards and the rocker also makes such a huge difference, not just the length and volume.

eqKneelo · Post by **eqKneelo** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:36 pm

MR- That 6'2" you've been killing it on aint so thin. (2 7/8" on the stringer... nicely foiled)

JohnS- 100%, a 5'8" can be a gun and a 6'4" can be a small wave weapon depending on Rocker and foil.

austo · Post by **austo** » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:23 am

Red , I bought that 6'8 pictured at Sunset, I never did get to ride it as I bought it for an overseas trip that didnt get the swell. I off loaded it to I big guy in the Southwest WA. He is known to charge large outside reef at bears, I guess he is making use of it.
I have had a new board shaped by Dale Ponsford I was looking to go longer at 6'3 (Iam 6'1 100kgs) . After some discussion with him he talked me back to a 6'1 (which I have been riding for the last few years). I am yet to take delivery of the board, Dale is in the camp of not going longer but maintaining volume to suit the rider. He has just shaped a new board for himself at 5'6 he was very encouraged by its results.
Horses for courses I guess.

crox · Post by **crox** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:08 am

It would depend what the criteria for too long is. From an aesthetic viewpoint I think a board is too long when it appears to flap in front of the rider.
Going the other way, boards shorter than about 5' 6" can make the rider appear cramped. [also dependent on riders size]

eqKneelo · Post by **eqKneelo** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:40 am

I know Bruce has been experimenting with Asyms for awhile now, but after watching this video I wonder in an asym would make a very functional longer knee board.
I could see an over 7'2" Asym surfing a lot looser.

http://youtu.be/SJpEHK6VjcA

Love this kids whole outlook... Probably speaks to anyone who surfs outside "the box".
(Like all of us).

Bryn · Post by **Bryn** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:55 am

Definitely, people like Ryan burch give hope for the future soul of surfing! What he did on that chunk of foam blew the doors off a whole lot of theory and proves what was possible with minimal equipment and big imagination (and a huge amount of talent of course).

analbirth · Post by **analbirth** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:09 pm

Crox, boards appear to flap in front of stand up surfers too but still they persist. This is not directed at you but maybe a few, not all, with negative comments regarding extra length haven't actually surfed a long board and need to find out what those that have, like about them.
Then it's easy, if you don't like them don't surf them.
A bit like penis size, those of us stuck with a short one will never admit that a longer one might be better!!!

Kneeboard Surfing USA Community Forum

How long is too long? Anyone reach a limit yet?

length

The bottom matters a lot