WILL FIVE FINS REPLACE QUADS?

DrStrange · Post by **DrStrange** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:52 am

Good point Rock. I'm wondering how much is rocker and how much fins. Be interesting, if possible maybe with multiple "fin boxes" to set up same board say with the parallel and verticle keels and then with angled quad and maybe then again with 3 fins. I guess this has been discusseda bit before and Surfhorn has done it some with quad/quint.

crox · Post by **crox** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:08 am

Hi Smoking Rock – my question was not intended as a criticism of the fish – I just couldn’t remember any good shots of round cutbacks on them.
The waves that you surf are very different from ours as a general rule & to be able to comment on them I would need to surf there first – but I can fully understand that you need some specialized equipment!
However I think some boards can [with the exception of very large waves] work very well in the majority of conditions encountered in Australia, USA & Europe. The 5’ 10” rounded pin 3 fin in the these shots is a good example - album_showpage.php?pic_id=2528

The top two shots were a bottom turn & cutback on the same wave – a very shallow & powerful spot – the bottom right was in very small & weak conditions.
It just begs the question – why not surf a board that will do it all? [& well!!]

The problem with still shots is that they don’t always tell the whole story – what you don’t see is the smooth way that the board in the above shots drives from one move to the next [it’s this I don’t believe 2 or 4 fins do as well]. With the right rail shape, template rocker & volume [not much to ask!] you can reduce fin area & drag & rely on the rails.

On a personal note, all the 4 fin boards that I have ridden have ended up as 5 finners - & they all went better [for me] but I think I might just have a bit of Red’s possible scepticism on the subject – they might just have all worked best with 3 of the right fins!

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:29 am

My five finner is a fins-forward quad where I just added the center box. The board was designed as a quad and not as a five finner.

Its going to take a bit of work with fin designs and several other boards with fin placement to truly build a board specifically designed as a five finner. But, as it now stands, I have a board that I can surf in everything - from mush to big Pleasure Point. I haven't ridden it in big Moss or a wave with power similar to Hawaii but I'm confident that it will handle most situations.

Plus, I'm having a ton of fun on it!

Smokin Rock · Post by **Smokin Rock** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:46 am

stemple · Post by **stemple** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:42 am

I have been riding both tris and quads during the last month or two. A flashpoint tri and a stubb. Mr. Rock, I have come to the conclusion that the bud's quads are the board of choice for square, dredging pits. They hold with greater grip on steeper sections, I seem more confident making a steep vertical drop on them. My stubb also has a bit more volume in the nose area and that seems to keep the nose up and tracking in the vertical portion of the drop a bit easier. The corrollary to this is that they are not as loose and quick responding as the tri. The quads seem to take more effort to bring around quickly. Tris seem to come around quickly but it sometimes is easy to oversteer and loose a bit of speed. (this could be because of my poor technique or being used to giving more effort than I need too).

Its kinda like changes in wheelbase for a mountain bike. Longer wheelbase more stable, attains faster speeds with solid performance. Shorter wheelbase very nimble but begins to get slightly sketchy at higher speeds. One bike you use for ripping up single track the other for bombing fire roads. Very different indeed. (ps. If you ride fully suspended, long travel bike, give it up and just ride a motorcycle!)

As for five fins, I been thinking about dropping some fin plugs along the stringer on my stubb as an experiment. I love the board, so modifying it is a bit worrisome. If I do that I would try and copy the fin layout as close possible of my tri. The idea being trying to hold as many variables the same as possible. How would the stubb work if rode as a tri? or as a five fin?

Does anybody think putting the plugs in would change the board performance significantly if I go back to riding it as the original design (i.e. quad set up)?

Steeno · Post by **Steeno** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:52 pm

Always remember that placement, not neccesarilly number will define board performance in different wave variances.

just my opinion

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:02 am

John Mel of Freeline just returned from 2 weeks in Indo where he rode a duplicate of my KB. We measured the placement of my center fin so John was able to drop in plugs before he left.

John rode the KB as a quad and found it too loose. The addition of the fifth fin turned the board into a screamer. Nothing like 2 solid weeks of waves to fine tune a design.

dogtown · Post by **dogtown** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:52 pm

This growing trend led me to my original post .Guy,s that do the mod seem to be happier with the boards performance,but that is a lot of fin area(read drag}and at the end of the day would these guys perform better on something like bruce's 5 fin design or thruster ?This observation isn't aimed at quad riders who like the way they perform (ride what works for you)but for the guys that are riding them that don't........Love,Peace and Kneeboard Development......

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:56 pm

I'm riding a quad/5 fin because I was looking for a board that would help me keep KBing even with thrashed ankles and an aging body. If I were 20 years younger, I'd still be on my 5'8" double-wing swallow thruster, riding grinding barrels over semi-dry reef.

But I was looking for a bigger board that would float me better and pick up waves a lot more easily. What I found in my 6'0" quad/5 was a board that surfs a wide variety of waves. In the past, I would only break out my KB if it were at least 4 foot and steep & deep. With the larger KB I can surf anything. Its really made my surfing fun again and maintains a high level of performance.

DrStrange · Post by **DrStrange** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:23 am

Whatever you like is the perfect board for you (anyone) and I have to agree w/ Steenos

Always remember that placement, not neccesarilly number will define board performance in different wave variances.

Combination of rocker, rail line, fine shape size and placement etc etc all contribute. As you shift the variable around, you can get fairly similar outcomes w/ quite different setups when they are all blended together into the performance of the board. Each configuration will have its pluses and minuses but one particular fin number, or any other variable, is not "the magic" ingredient.

lars · Post by **lars** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:02 am

I had a 5 fin made by Farralones Kneeboards in the early 80's. It was set up to go 3, 4 , or 5. I agree with the statement that fin placement is everything. With the 5 set up the fins were all bunched in the tail. We used to call this set up "The Rake". It only really worked [sort of] in the really big stuff. I rode it as a thruster most of the time. I think the concept would have worked if the leading fins were placed further from the tail [a fish].

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:47 am

Front fins need to be placed more forward than a traditional fish set up.
We tried various multi fin set ups in the 70's and 80's and ended up settling on the thruster set up.

The fairly newer, fins-forward set up really made the five fin a viable option. I've been riding 5 fins for a year now and really am stoked on the board.