Greenough "edge board" -vs- Greenough Velo

[flexspoon]

A little on the edge boards and comparison with Velo.

Check out flexman's comments as he has a lot of insight into edge boards.

George's move away from Velo to edge boards (about 1970) was a pragmatic choice, based in part on increasing crowds at his favorite spots, but was also because of the need to improve his earlier transitional displacement hull designs. George wanted a kneeboard design with a much higher planing speed that allowed more freedom, a wider variety of tracks in poor quality waves, yet still offered efficient, balanced handling.

Greenough's development of the triplane edge kneeboards lead to his use of carbon graphite/epoxy and new, removeable high aspect ratio fin designs. Over the following years his creation of flexible carbon graphite sailboards and their removeable fins were based on edge board designs, not round bottom hulls with glassed-on fins.

My comments are only based on boards I've owned and ridden but no technical or construction background.

Some pics for comparison. The Velo board is from Project Velo that you may remember from a few years ago. Edge board I got from Paul Gross in 1981-1982.

edge board is 19.5" X 60" and Velo is 22" X 60"




Similar outlines









add 3 1/2" to what you see on the tape so Velo fin is 10", edge fin is 8" and removable.




The "edge" may refer to the sharp edge of the chines which are clearly visible here. Flexman?



Another edge board. Belongs to Carlos in Spain. The last one that Paul Gross made. Until Carlos sent me pics of his edge board I had only seen the two I've owned. And until seeing Greenough in Crystal Voyager I'd never seen anyone ride one. You can see the chines and the "runners". Some edge boards had runners and some not. I've ridden both and they seem to add tremendous lift - at least that was my impression. The runners did not make the board track or difficult to turn. Boards seem to "hold" onto a vertical face pretty much the same with or without runners.

The triplane bottom .... flexman has to fill in this part.





Diagram of my edge board:



And when I say "pops into a concave" this is what I mean. I am not hitting the board, just pressing down with my fist. This happens as soon as you start planning.



And then the tremendous flex in the tail(s). You'll notice that it is a "W" shaped fish tail to allow the independent flex with a rubberized fabric to prevent fin cavitation.



Quick riding comparison:

Edge board: It's alive! Slithers underneath you. Drifts and slideslips WHEN you want it to. Tracks and holds tight WHEN you want it to. FAST. Does NOT spring or thrust out of turns, just maintains speed, actually feels "limp" as opposed to "springy". True nuetral buoyancy.

Almsot feels like you're riding a slip of paper or maybe a mat that is 1/8" thick. Has tremendous built-in speed and you can drift, slide, skid or otherwise pop the fin out when needed to control or alter your speed. Like having a racehorse that you have to hold back. It wants to go.

Velo: You will probably not be drifting or sideslipping with that massive 10" fin. I love to sideslip - Velo doesn't. Lean over and bend into a turn and it will spring you out of that turn. An unbelievable, addictive feeling.

And the biggest difference between the two:
Velo does need better waves - this has always been the issue - ride Velo in the wrong waves and you'll be frustrated. Ride it in the right waves and you'll be shocked and amazed! The edge board handles almost all conditions as well as any spoon can, much more efficient.

Paddling: Hey they're spoons - you push them out in front of you while you swim. Velo feels solid while paddling or diving under waves and the edge board flexes while paddling and bends and twists when you dive under. It feels flimsy.

Construction: Carlos board came from a mold, others I don't know.

Given all the above, what do I know? I've never ridden anything else.
Isn't it all about having fun??

[Beeline2.0]

..

[ScottMac]

..

[Beeline2.0]

..

[red]

Flexspoon,
Thank you. Most constructive
Interesting about the dynamic concave. I wonder if that's a feature of your specific board or a more general characteristic?
Cross-braced boards won't be able to do this.

[ScottMac]

..

[Flexman]

.

[Flexman]

.

[Beeline2.0]

,,,

[Flexman]

.

[flexspoon]

Interesting about the dynamic concave. I wonder if that's a feature of your specific board or a more general characteristic?

My other edge board was not so bendy/twisty and the concave was not nearly as pronounced. This board was an experiment no doubt. I even added glass to the bottom because it felt so fragile. And it is too flexy - not something to copy. But very fun to ride.

I'll also mention this again:

At 5'11" and 180-200lbs this board is not too small for me. That is how efficient the edge boards are.

[Beeline2.0]

..

[flexspoon]

Why an "edge board"?
From
http://www.ksnz.org.nz/george_interview_0878.htm

After a while, George came down the beach, walking like a straw-headed penguin. He walks like he's wearing flippers even when he's not wearing flippers. He walked on up to the Indicator, forded the creek-river, and walked further still. A while later I saw him kicking out toward the lineup. He was caught inside, sinking down as each wall of foam churned over him, and popping out the back without much loss of distance, kicking all the time. Then he was beyond the waves, churning into position and then waiting.

A set came. A stand-up surfer took it, dropped into a clean turn, and drew it out through a flat spot in the wave. Then he dropped low as the wave sucked and pitched, but he didn't have the speed or the height left, and his board was snapped out from under him. George took number two: dropped straight over with the pitching lip, bobbing and bouncing through the white water until his board found surface, then cranked over into a fin-out turn that shot him up into green face, already hunched up and forward, coming into the first section through the backdoor, tucking high and banking off the part that had nailed the first surfer. He gained speed and cleared the section easily, throwing the board back on its heels and pulling with his left hand.

George took wave after wave, easily outperforming everyone in the water. After sunset George caught his last wave, landing down along the seawall. Walking back to the car, I asked him how his current board compared to the red ones that he used in the 60's. "Well, the red one named "Velo" was my favorite. It was 4'11" by 21¾" wide and was built for a powerful spinning type of wave. I used that board to shoot the water footage in the Innermost Limits. The problem with that board was that it only liked that type of surf and wasn't good for much else.

"In 1970 I built a new type of board. This one was very complex compared to the red board. It was designed to work in any type of surf that had enough power to drive it. It has three concaves forward, blending together aft, along with a few other shapes that were used to give it the drive it needed in other types of waves. When you travel around a lot you see a lot of different types of breaks. One place may be a gentle three- to five-foot one day, and the next day have powerful 8- to 12-foot driving walls with dropping sections. The board I'm using today Is the same design and is three years old. Besides the wide power range, I wanted as much power as possible out of the smallest shape without screwing up how it rides. The fin uses laminar flow to reduce drag. The present board is l8" x 4'10½". One of the problems with this small a hoard is that they don't go through white water well, and the tuning or balance - is touchy to get right. What I like is a board that's neutral handling. It doesn't do any one thing or ride one type of wave really well or do any weird things.

"The most important thing," George said, "is that it works in a wide range of waves and surface conditions.

I'll 2nd everything he said, especially the part about not going thru the whitewater well. If you get stuck behind in the whitewater the board lacks drive to get you out.