FLASHPOINT

[hart]

Bruce Hart writes:

If we can harness SPEED through turning, then the emphasis of generating SPEED through flat rockers becomes diluted.

Now the way I see it Bruce, by using flattish rockers, we are not generating speed, but are, in fact, reducing the loss of speed - two highly different ideas and not necessarily heading in a congruent direction.

Reducing the loss of speed through rocker, only becomes relevant if you have too much length to begin with.

By removing superfluos length, the congruence is mitigated. Easy. And we can all stay riding short, flat kneeboards. No problem

But I look at your point differently.

And say that by paying close attention to rocker and length combined, (meaning both in fact can be increased, providing we use them both together)..then we don't have to limit ourselves to what shouldn't happen in our surfing lives..rather than what should

Surfing, I hope you would agree, is about saving kinetic energy as well as generating potential energy.

Absolutely

And foil? Might I ask why it is so intangible? (or is it the quest itself which is so intangible?)

More than anything else, foil has preoccupied my hands (read touch) more that any other facet of shaping for the past decade.

I consider it to be the new frontier in design. The newest task for Craftsmen who choose to shape.

And no matter how hard I try..I am still unsure if I'll ever get it to the level it deserves. So indeed, it is the quest and not the task, that becomes difficult to grasp.

And, could it be true that, like form, foil follows function?

Yes

And, on sideways topic, at last, I've had an epiphany about reverse vee.

And it's got nothing to do with water release.

Sure..reverse vee (or vee forward of your wide-point) doesn't technically release because nothing enters to begin with..but it can allow your rail to stay 'high' enough, that it is out of the water once your rail is buried

And allow all that length and rocker (read foil) to do its job



Hope it's all good, mate

hart

ps

One hour until State Of Origin..go the Blues

And Queenslanders will now have to wait!! (and even longer if they bloody win)

New South Wales by 10

[surfhorn]

Foil is all about flow......be it the rails, bottom rocker or the way the deck comes off the nose. There is nothing like running your hands over a freshly shaped blank.

Each one of us rides differently so we are always on the hunt for a board that becomes 'one' with our style. Its always a rush to realize, after riding a wave, that your board and yourself were absolutely in tune, that you both were flowing together. Talk about a sweet spot.

Could there be a better reason to support our local KB shapers?

[Steeno]

loving the way harry calls you by your full name Bruce Hart.....too funny

[hart]

In the interests of not mis-understanding, either of you mind defining FOIL - as used in the above statements?

I kind of see it like this:

Foil is thick to thin. Foil is the same as the curve from the apex in the thickest part of your fin..compared to its trailing edge. The fin is foiled. The fin must possess foil.

Thickness that is reduced to thinness represents the same principle in a fin, as it does to a surfboard (generic).

And there is good foil..

and bad

Sometimes, there is none what-so-ever

From nose-to-widepoint-to-tail, I believe everything in your board should foil

So that whatever way you are looking at your board, you see thickness that curves ultimately to zero

Just like your fin..

or even in the shape of a boomerang if you look closely

By the way Bruce Hart, that comment on reverse vee was also related to spiral.

A spiral is purely an adaptation of the traditional vee principle.

Traditional vees always occur behind your widepoint (even if it was forward of half-way 70's)

Reverse vees however, are just that..they are vees that are placed in a 'reverse fashion' ie: in front of your widepoint (which in modern boards is generally behind halfway 90's).

Meaning it is difficult to apply the same characteristics to spirals as you would a reverse type vee..because they are applied to opposite ends of a surfboard (generic)

hart

ps

But that doesn't mean you can't foil them both together!



And so enters quietly, the concave

[walt davidson]

[hart]

Umm..

Any other reason..from me?

Hell no!



bruce

[hart]

harry

the sheer dynamic of water-entry and subsequent water-release in surfboards can hardly be defined as passive.

the desire to make 'it easy' to happen cannot be confused with taking a softer-option over one which is complex.

we can continue to ride straight, flat bottoms if we choose, because we know they are fast. Naturally, to a point.

but if we examine how we can induce water-entry, then we are off to a more flying start!

and maybe the concave arrives sooner, rather than later

(talk about transparent )

hart

ps

enjoy your reasoning

[stevea]

got a brand new concept ive waited too long to spread the word on theanti rocker rocker now i just cant help myself take a6 5 blank andflaten it to the point where you wonder if theres enough thickness to float you drawout and cut planshape now shape in bottom nose to tail concave into double concave vee leave tail flat ok do deck and rails oh i forgot put in a wing in the planeshape now flute the wing check the rocker ok its about as flat asu can go without reversing it and what would be the matter with that i dont know i glassed it as it was and surfed it some 4 months later in4-6ft barrels the result speed to burn did it turn asit was4 inches shorter than my other board the answer yes could i keep up barely do i like no i love it will you i dont know is it really new idoubt it its just i surfed it one of the best waves in theworld and it responded beyond expectation can you buy one no its just worthy of consideration i dont know who but it could be you who gets the same response in the meantime it going to challenge your shaper is it the rocker is it the foil is it the rail is it the bottom shape planshape thickness fin configuration or is it just an illussion

[hart]

still thinking......... tick, tick, tick (now where did I leave that Queen's pawn?)

Harry, I'm not sure..

But after the Artis' last call,

I just Castled!



and very seriously..

Steve Artis (stevea) was not only one of the few guys that could beat Crawford OUT of the water..he beat him IN it, as well.

and I for one, will always listen to what he says



even if it comes from the last bastion of great surfer/shapers who were sure the World was flat

(with the kindest regards Stevo..always good to talk, mate)

Enjoying Bali?

(and besides Steve, it was you who taught me to think about a single to double concave Earthrise [courtesy of Flecky] rather than a flat bottom flextail Crozier )

and the only thing I could come up with myself..was something in-between!

because I could fault, neither predecessor

hart