New to kneel on the great lakes

[Indygoofyfoot]

Hey all. I am a long time Stand up surfer originally from San Diego / La Jolla circa 60's 70's, now surf the great lakes and shape for locals here. Recent circumstances have limited my mobility but not my desire to surf. I have decided to build my self a kneelo and attempt to become proficient at that. My question is this? what are the advantages of four fins over two and is it worth going back and adding additional fins to the board I have already built pictured here. I build a lot of modified fishes for stand up lake surfers and used the principals I have refined for my kneelo. I'm hoping it performs as well as I think it should. It's 5'10" x 22.5" fairly fat cuz fresh water doesn't float as well. Any thoughts?


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[Beeline2.0]

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[stemple]

Nice art work,

I would give it try first before you build a new one or modify this one. Depending on your height and weight. I would seriously consider going wider than 22.5, I would add an inch to the width, and potentially add a few inches in length. A lot of the boards people are riding now are 5"10 to 6'1" and at least 23 inches wide here in california. I have 6'2" 23" squash tail I ride when it is really weak and mushy. It works pretty good but I am 220, 6'2". Quads verus tris big debate.

In my humble opinion quads with the fins closer together are looser than quads with more separation. The separation tends to give more drive off the bottom and hold slightly better in steep sections along the wall, but needs a steeper shoulder to really whip around as fast as quads with fins set closer together. Riding style can make up for any of those sublte differences though. If you like riding in the pocket and slam lips in vertical critcal sections wider separation seems to be the ticket. Soft shoulders and you like crank alot of turns in then closer placement seems to work better.

Tris seem to be very loose and loved by alot folks, The aussies seem to think they work great and by the photos posted on this site you would have to agree. Quads tended to be the dominate board type at the US champs.

I would play close attention to the position of the fins in regards to the tail. This fin forward design really works. Some of the fins sets are 15 to 20 inches up from the tail. This allows you have a longer board and still retain looseness of a smaller stick. Also fin angle seems to make some differences. From my observations, the Aussies generally tend to angle their fins in towards the stringer more. Parkes, Flashpoint, Blast, and a few others all have using fin forward designs for awhile. Most people agree, myself included, that those boards rock. I would review the kneeboard design forums, there is a lot good info in there. Good Luck and post some pics from the great lakes.

[Beeline2.0]

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[stemple]

Hey beeline,

You should have been in SC for the contest. A few people would disagreed with you on point number 1. Lots of wide boards and it did not appear to lack in responsiveness. Most of the top contenders were riding boards over 23" in width and in 5' 10" range in shoulder high slow surf.

Ken stapleton was riding a 26" wide board!!! He won a heat!

[Beeline2.0]

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[Indygoofyfoot]

The Lakes are a very mysterious place, not a lot of people want to see it popularized, they have seen what happened elsewhere and want nothing to do with the crowds and the commercial scene. Although the water temps tend to keep the meek at bay it can still get crowded like this day on one of the lakes. I'm sure you've all seen Step Into Liquid and the representation of lakesurfing made there. A lot of lakesurfers here look at that as a slap in the face so we just lay low mind our own business. No sense in walking around with a target on your back. I think this photo is a fair representation of the attitude of lakesurfing in general. Ryan am I wrong?[/img]

[stemple]

My Blast stubb vector is 24" wide and 5'11" and its plenty loose. I rode it in the initial heats but switched to my Parkes 6'0" 23.25" in later heats. I felt the Parkes was looser for those conditions because if pushed hard enough I could slide the tail and make sharper turns on the soft pleasure point shoulders which the judges seemed to be awarding higher scores for. (Note in some of the video how SFkneelo,#2 in the open division, can spin 360s on Parkes quads. He did it a couple of times in the contest as well. I am still working on that trick). The Blast board has separated quad fins where as the parkes fins are set slightly farther forward and closer together.

It should be noted that AAA division was won on a Blast board (quad fin I think).

The width of the stubb makes it plane fast and catch waves early. It seems to me, given that the great lakes is not what you would call a power surf location. A board that floats well and planes fast would be very important performance points. I really do not think the downside of extra width is significant enough to outweigh its positive benefits in small to moderate surf.

[Beeline2.0]

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[Indygoofyfoot]

There's only one other that I know practices the art on a regular basis. Ryan G. He is also a well known shaper here who knows no boundaries as far as what water craft he uses. It's whatever suits the day..... you may find him catwalking on a 10' log or ripping on a short board or cruizin his custom surf mat.

[hart]

Indygoofyfoot,

This place has captured my imagination.

Your artwork is hot..is it on the foam or the filler (hot?) coat and do you airbrush?

When I've white-water rafted, I'm amazed at how little flotation you achieve in fresh (usually cold) water..scarier, when its big than in the ocean..and yet when I've been in the Mediterranian, the salinity is almost intolerable.

Don't be afraid of area, it will help you where you surf. Just keep lots of curve in the outline and try and not let it look like a mini-mal..try to eliminate any parallel thru the centre..I think that's why we surf them wider down here.

Post some more photos..and mate, your spot is safe from me..I'll be grateful to get a couple of hours north of Sydney over Christmas, let alone travel to where this machine is taking me.

Regards from OZ.

[Indygoofyfoot]

I have done my airbrush on foam and on hotcoat. It depends on the extent of the design if it laps over the rails I'll spray on the foam, if not I like to paint on the hot coat. The colors definitely pop more when on the hot coat but the danger of sand thru during finish sanding is too high when it passes over the rail. I usually use my paasche airbrush on the more intricate designs but fall back on a simple syphon sprayer when doing flames and such. Here's a link to some of my other work http://www.indygoofyfoot.com/Surfboards1.htm. My wife is very understanding as she's a kneelo from Point Loma from way back when (early 70's) so having no garage and a very nice shaping/design room is cool. I believe that having the proper environment is key to releasing your soul into a project.

[ryan]

Hey Geoff! Good to see you here. Yeah, surfing the lakes is strange indeed. It takes much dedication to find good waves, but when you do it is very fulfilling. Most surfers would freak at the quality of waves we occasionally get. The truth is though, most of the time it is shitty. Cold, windy, short period windswell.

Surfing a kneeboard here is a challenge because of the lack of consistent quality. I only take mine out when there is a decent curl and a little power. I am a newbie to it as well and only have experience on a Lis inspired fish. I am itching to try something more akin to the aussie styles.

There's something more intimate about being so close to the water. Geoff, hope to see you out soon!

I'll try to post a pic of a good day a few weeks ago at Seul Choix point on northern Lake Michigan. Sets were 4-6+ breaking on a limestone bottom with offshore winds. A fun day no matter where in the world it is! [/img]

[ryan]

If someone can tell me how to add a jpeg, I will add the pic. Thanks!

[Beeline2.0]

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