FLASHPOINT

[hart]

Albert,

How is it?

You are right that fin placement has heaps to do with chosen wave-range..as so many things are, it's up to the individual.

And Kyle's boards are way loose due, not to the rail fin dimension, but his centre fin..about 4" forward than Farrer for example. BUT, Kyle then uses a Merrick or Slater in the centre whereas Simon will use a GX..so Kyle uses additional area to compensate for the more forward position of the fin.

In planshapes for example, I wanted to illustrate that if you rode a 5' 10" I don't beleive there was a lot of advantage adding only two inches to create 'a gun'..I'm sure you've seen Kyle's favourite..it's seven-o and his shortboard is 5' 8"..big incremental difference. But at the World's in 2002..he had three other boards INBETWEEN those dimensions.

Simon also has 12" seperating his shortie from his 'gun'..over 4 boards in total.

Now in Sophia's case..and I hope I can be totally politically correct here..Women (generally) don't have the muscle mass of most men. I am assuming also that Sophia hasn't say surfed a kneeboard for over 30 years and she is tall and slim.

Additionally, Women do not surf with the push and power of a lot of men..because Women are far more graceful creatures..they will flow and glide rather than aggressively launch at things..

You are right in all your observations..but if I were shaping for Sophia..I would be targetting a 5" 10" shortie and a semi-gun up to 6' 2"..a 4" differential in overall length. And the length here will translate into outline curve..guns with parallel rails will not work for cutties and direction changes very well..particularly for a fluid, graceful kind of surfer.

Hope it's all good..

And Dan, all roads DO lead to Rome! Go the Thruster, mate

[hart]

Oh Albert, I forgot..

Kyle is taller AND heavier than me..and that is way big for a man your size..his boards probably felt like corks..adding to the looseness you felt.

I think you know Grant Christmas..he just won the Sydney Club (aggregate) Contest for the year..if you ever get a chance, try to surf one (or more) of his..much more in tune with the way you surf and the way you both are built.

Take care mate,

Bruce.

[red]

Bruce,

You wrote that the max length from a standard Bennet blank is about 6' 5"

If shaping a 7' and using 2 blanks, does this bang up the cost a lot [double) or a moderate amount [say 30%)?

I'm thinking 6' 5" or however long a single blank will go. Full nose [17" or so); moderate width [around 23", but less, rather than more), pulled in tail [15"-16" max - direction change in rail line to give pointy tail), possible fin placement a bit more forward than usual [1-2"]. I ride with 3 even sized fins [AM's). I'd intend to ride the board in anything over 5". What do you think?

Albert,
I've ridden 5'8"'s in the biggest surf Durban has to offer, I rode 6' at large Kommetjie and Crayfish Factory in Cape Town, and big Winkipop on a nice 6'2". It just gets better every time I step up a size [as long as the tail width reduces concominantly). I think the length creates confidence for paddling into waves, connects everything together, and the narrow tail, which you can have because of the length, smooths out the chop and bumps.

Gigs is a similar size to you, I think, and his smallest board used to be 6' and his favourites were around 6'4". Yes his fins were placed further forward to suit his style, so you have a point there, but we have to remember that there are a ton of variables in a board that can be combined in different ways to do the same thing. Good shapers have decided on their combination of features. These may differ from one shaper to another, but they are all trying to maximise a speed / manoeuverability trade off. Some of them will do this with wide tails /flat rocker/ fins further back, others will add a bit more rocker and concaves, while others will lengthen the rail line but pull in the tail.

Let's swap boards at Bendelong. I weigh around 75kg, so you'll find my boards less corky than Kyles. My fin placement is more conventional, too.
Pick one you like the look of here: album_pic.php?pic_id=859

[surfhorn]

Bruce - Don't let me riding a quad fool ya'. I've ridden thruster set ups since they came on the scene in 1980(approx). Prior to that, I rode tri fins ....big 12" flex fin with two, 2 inch side fins.

My last thruster was about 5 years ago, before I had to quit to give me time to rebuild my ankle. At that time, I had been riding a double wing swallow thruster but with the front fins moved up - something that wasn't being done here in Santa Cruz. The board was designed to surf Sewer Peak --and it really worked well. I'm going to go through the huge stack of foam-covered order forms and check out the dimensions.

Because of my ankle, I've dropped the larger swim fins and have gone to longer (thus more float) KBs so I can use my arms more. In the old days, I never used my arms to get into a wave - at all. I just kicked, pushing the KB in front of me. It comes from my background riding surf mats and wooden paipos. Its still a hard habit to break but the new 6'0" length is helping.

I'm hoping to cut out a thruster template ASAP. But, in the meantime, this quad really rocks.

-Dan

[hart]

Hey Red,

Good coupla waves of yours mate, on the 'Kneeboard Island' vid..and good surfing for an old fart too..

6' 5" would be THE max out of Bennett's kneeboard blank..anything bigger will require two (say) 7 footers (surfboard) blanks glued in a particular way.

The cost is the (one) additional blank..seventy bucks?

But if you aim for 6' 5" maxm note:

Other dimensions would be cool..17" nose keeps good area without being wide..and your tail could hip (direction change) at around 16" in width (say) 13" up.

Draw it out at 23" wide and let it close a fraction under.

3 x GAM would be good..and if you move the rail fins up 1.5" the trailing edge would be 18.5" from the tail..sounds good too, because you have a real pinnie thing happenning in yuor tail as a result of the break in the outline which means bite from your board..not just from your fins.

Centre fin would adjust from 9.5"-10.5" up from the tail.

Same bottom as normal, but just pronounce the Spiral (vee) slightly to help with water release and make sure the conc. is only subtle.

And interesting about Gig's shortboard board dimensions huh?

G'day Dan..how different did the Single fins go as soon as you added the little halfmoons out at the rail?

Tri fins were hot..but Thrusters just seemed to make things hotter.

Post the dimensions if you can find them.

Regards from Sydney.

[kripchik]

Bruce & Albert

I gotta agree totally about fin placement. Though I am still learning about the finer points of kneeboard design. I think Bruce's point about making a gun that is at least 4" longer than my current board makes sense, anything less than that (as a 'gun') seems rather pointless.

Bruce what you said about women is generally right! As you have seen the "Kneeboard Island" vid you will have noticed the brief clips of women surfing, graceful gliding etc... I reckon I am a fair bit more aggressive than that. I surf mostly with John, and I probably reflect his style a fair bit. But you have probably seen more women in the water than I have. Anyway Bendalong should be a good test huh!

Cheers
Sophia

[kneelo_44]

Hi Guys (Bruce and Albert)

My Sophia is far from being a graceful surfer, she is a bit of a hard bitch. She is also a solid bitch (represents Aust in Judo), but trim and fit. She has surfed up to 8' on her old board (5'6") designed for me. Sophia played rugby as well. Sometimes I think she has a death wish and size doesn't scare her either. Sometimes she can be a little over confident and that causes me some worries. She's a little more aggressive than most females I have seen. I think that is due to some of the beach's that we surf Gunnamatta, Rye, Portsea, Miami Ave and Suicide (Pt Leo). The worst thing for her is how blokes treat her in the water. They at times give her a hard time one for being a chick as well as being a krip. She gives them a mouth full. But some are now starting to show some respect. The Trigger bros especially (they shaped her board) and give her advice on the breaks etc. They (Trigger bros) always come and speak to her. I thank you for the advice you have given her. Sophia also studies all the vid's and the styles of champ's. Sophia the bitch terms, are a terms of endearment, nothing pers.

John

[kneelo_44]

Bruce

I must being missing something or just crazy. I have owned a gun or semi gun. I have surfed on my old boards in up to 3 meters (Sandon Point) and never had a problem. I must say though I have been well and truly smashed, but is that part of the fun. My new board is 5'11" and have only surfed in 6' swell and it never missed a beat in fact it was great. So what are the benifits for me, I must say I'm old and stubborn. Everyone one say's I need a gun, but I'm not sure. I'm must say I like the look of your boards and I'm curious about buying one from you.

I too think that fin placement can and does make a huge to difference to a board's performance.

[hart]

Hi John,

I'm sure you're not stupid and I don't really think that you're missing anything.

As long as you're out there getting into it, then it's all good.

Whether or not you feel that you need (or want) anything bigger, is entirely up to you..no-one else.

I think that Sophia has seen my reasoning on this thread most accurately..in that IF you want to go longer..give a reasonable differential between the lengths of your boards first..then consider outlines, rockers etc second.

In terms of personal philosophy regarding length however..there is no point having a dedicated long board, if you don't in turn, have a dedicated shortboard.

I am obviously influenced very strongly by contest surfers and contest surfing. Waves will, of course range from zero to big in any given gathering.

I have just shaped a newy for myself for a Sydney summer..yet come Autumn, this board will be a little loose for the stronger swells we will experience from the South.

I will end up doing myself a new one..it won't be a semi-gun..but the tail will be pulled in a little..and so will the nose. It will probably be about 2" longer..but it will be another shortboard.

Incremental differences in length and outline can be felt the same way that changes in fin positioning can.

So if you want to keep one board for little crap..and design another for when there's a bit more push, then two boards may become a viable thing for you.

Sophia,

Now that I know you're a Martial Artist, I figure you have a lot more grace than I first anticipated..

Regards,

Bruce

[kneelo_44]

Bruce

Thank you, you have hit it right on the head for me. I want another board, but I want to be able to handle the winter swells we get. I don't feel that I need anything to long, just shaped differently and fin set up. We will be in SYD in the near future. I would like to drop in and have a look at your boards with the view to picking one up.

John
PS with Sophia just keep her at arms length and your fine.

[surfhorn]

Hey, Hart - Regarding the little tri fins added to a 12" flex fin. The little tri side fins (we tried little half moon ones and more straight pivotal tris) allowed me to hang up on the wall more steeply and really ride barrels deep. But that is all in relation to the board dimensions.

This was back in the early 1970's and my tri fins were 5'2" - see, I was going longer, up from 4'10" & 5'0"!- with a width of about 19 1/2 inches. Nose was in the 12 1/2 range and the tail really teeny, at 11 1/2 inches or so. Wide point was in front of the middle of the board. And they were really thin so we had no trouble getting under waves.

I didn't wear a leash but I did have long fiberglass handles. Some KBers used glassed-in rope but I found the hard handles worked best......except when you landed on them after a free-fall in big surf.

The boards worked well when the surf was pumping but you really couldn't KB smaller days at most breaks. Once you got out onto the flat of the wave, the tail would sink and you'd loose all your speed and just slow to a halt. So we did some exploring and found all the little, tucked away reefs where we could take-off vertically and ride little barels over exposed rock. You learned how to land flat - real quick!

I never liked the way a Fish surfed but did have one in the quiver for smaller flatter days. I even rode it in 15'+ surf down at the tip of Baja and during the El Nino storms for the few years I lived in Southern California.

But with my knowledge of tri fins, once thrusters hit, I was all over them. We'd build a board one day, ride it the next and then I would go into the factory, grind off the fins and try new fins/placement. It was really fun going through so many boards....one of the advantages of working in a surf shop. My first experiment with a really wide KB with fin-forward placement was in 1985 but the board was only 5'5"...the length factor wasn't there yet. A danger to myself and others, as the saying goes.

But now that I've got the length dialed in on my quad, time to experiment with a thruster. Its like being a kid all over!

-Dan

[hart]

Hey Dan,

I didn't get straight into Thrusters as such..all of Dee Why stayed with the Crozier Trifin way past Chris' death and years after the Thruster first appeared.

Arguably the last PC protege to come from DY was a kid called Damien Gaynon..a real PC stylist and just a grom.

He beat Simon in the schoolboys in his final year and he rode a tri.

During the 80's he surfed the OZ circuit for me ( I picked up his sponsorship from Crozier following Chris' death) but very quickly I could see the dissadvantage his boards were giving him in a CONTEST sense.

For Damo to become competitive..he had to ride Thrusters. So I then had to teach myself how to shape them..and started to ride them myself.

From that point, there was never any looking back..and Damien beat Nov in the semi and Simon in the final of the ONLY man on man pro contest ever undertaken in OZ..Easter 1991.

But my boards of course, were typically PC, typically slabs, typically DY..but the Single (principal) fin was gone..and a multifin arrangement was in its place..and thanks again to Simon Ando.

Hi K_44 ..just who's arm are we talking about here, or should I bring the Staffy just in case?

Regards,

Bruce

[kneelo_44]

Hey Dan,

.


Hi K_44 ..just who's arm are we talking about here, or should I bring the Staffy just in case?

Regards,

Bruce

Yours, but she does like staffys

[geetee]

Hey Bruce,

I've got a 6' Parkes thuster that is about 10 months old and it's a great board. I'm was using Davids' template outside fins and a standard fcs centre fin. This was all very good while I was getting used to the board and after I spoke to David I put a smaller fin in the middle which made it looser and slightly faster. But I'm still looking for a bit more looseness(is that a word?). Davids' outside fins are quite big but they are a fairly large fin. Kyle has had a look at them and says they are a good shape. Maybe I should pull the middle fin out and ride it as a twinny in small waves and see. what do you think I'm just trying to fine tune it.

Glenn

[red]

Bruce's staffy may lick you to death, but that's about it