Some observations on rails

[red]

Some of you might remember that I used, many years ago, to claim that I could sink any rail, so it didn't matter how thick the rails were. I liked the way thick (railed) boards had confidence in the white water and helped stabilise the board when the lip was banging down. I regularly had boards made for me where rails were upwards of 2' thick at 1" in

The benefits are all true.

But this design format (combined with a few other features, like wide point forward) was also encouraging me (and most of the people I saw riding them) to go relatively straight and to surf safe and parallel.

I started to design boards that had finer rails and my observations follow from work over the past half decade (and close to 40 years of surfing). Hope it's of interest:
1) Finer railed boards promote a more vertical attack because it is easier to control edgelines (you are not always fighting to hold the rail down)
2) Finer rails facilitate rail design to help water to break away at the top edge (less water wrapping around the rail slowing you down)
3) Finer rails can be combined easier with domed decks without making overly thick boards (more doming means stronger engineering. Stronger engineering means that the glass schedule can be moderated, making for lighter boards)
4) Because the rails are easier to sink, less leverage is needed. This allows vee to be reduced, making for less drag between the fins (the board goes faster)
5) From a performance point of view, the board is easier to throw rail to rail (it's lighter, less bulky and travels faster)
6) I personally think they are a lot more fun to surf.

The board does become "twitchy". I think this is a good thing - like it's itching to get going, go somewhere, so something, rather than travel safely across the face of the wave.
The smashing lip can skip you out of the water (but what a pleasure to be driving that hard around a section!)
You have to exert more control when floating over foam sections (why float when you can fly?)

Of course there's more to a board than any single element, but it would be nice to hold the debate to this single element.

[Mike Fernandez]

Red, when you say finer rails, do you mean sharp rails?

[K-man]

Believe he's talking about the deck.Volume in the center for float.rolled deck to a ''finer''or thinner rail.I don't see any debate in all this as it's true.... :lol:I've several flashies on that design,and thats how they work.....

And yes, it Is it time for a cappucino and a meatpie....


cheers

[strudle]

Red, I always love reading your posts. So clear and easy too understand. Knowing very little about the technical side of things, I have very little I can add myself, but I find your observations very interesting and informative. I often catch myself thinking, "That's so true" or "I can see that happening"without ever having thought it through properly or been able to express it myself. Thank you for your continued educational posts. I hope some others chip in here with more on "just rails."

[KEL]

hey Red, sent you a pm...sorry for not knowing but are you an aussie shaper or a kneelo shaper???? KEL

[red]

Kind words :->

KEL
You can go into a shop and pick up a Slater model or a Taj model. I aim to do the same thing with my designs.

I've been designing kneeboards and computer cutting for a number of years. I worki closely with Andrew Stump (aka the professor), a standup shaper of formidable experience, knowledge and talent. We share ideas, research findings and design innovations. I am and always will be a kneeboarder. And I road test my own gear.

My vision is to produce proven machines in 3 categories - small waves, mid rangers and guns. I don't aim to custom shape for every perculiarity of body shape and style. I believe that a tested and proven board is the fastest way for kneeboarders to push their own limits.

But this is a distraction from rails...

[Stanley]

Im with Red on this one..

I surf thicker boards than Dr Reds generally but my rails are thin and rolled like a stand up board. and I love the maneuverability of having the widest point of my boards just back from center in my shorter boards to widest points center in my mid rangers to forward of center in my guns.

Ive had a few goes on Dr Reds boards they are fast and very responsive and they do allow me to turn them with ease in critical parts of the wave at will.

By the way Dr Red I went for a Reo at Spooks and put my knee through the deck....My poor board doesn't get much of a chance ...From snapping it at Flyns to to putting my knee through the deck... Not my fault there was a lip to tickle up...

By the way Dr Red can I borrow another board?... I promise I will treat it with the respect it deserves to be ridden with. I will treat it gently. Please Please

[Headwax.]

Hello Red

Err Doctor Red Thanks for sharing your observations which seem to be true for the most part.

But didn't we abandon thick railed boards in about 1978? well my shapers did. (just teasing, just teasing).

As far as

This allows vee to be reduced, making for less drag between the fins (the board goes faster)

. I'd like to see your objective evidence for the part in italics. (Of course not in this thread which is about rails. )

As far as rails go, my personal observation is that by varying the position of thickest part of the rail we can mimick an alteration in planshape widepoint without actually changing the planshape itself - and so increase the verticality of a board.

The disadvantage is that you reduce the amount of rail in the water, both fore and aft of this thickest point.

Also having a thick rail in the tail forces you to bury more forward rail. This is handy for quads - I think.

I have been out of the water for nearly two months.... but my French has improved.

[red]

Andrew,
Sorry to hear you are doing poorly.

But didn't we abandon thick railed boards in about 1978?

There seems to be a swing back to thicker boards and puffier rails in boards I see around.

by varying the position of thickest part of the rail we can mimick an alteration in planshape widepoint without actually changing the planshape itself - and so increase the verticality of a board

Remember that "rail foiling" thread from years ago? You were a generous contributer. Arising from that and my own thoughts I've spent a lot of time refining rail foiling and have arrived at the same conclusion. You can get a board that projects like a gun but still goes vert.