why are modern Kneeboards so BIG!!Why even kneeboard?

[Scott]

Hart,

Interesting about the rocker allowing for longer length but still surfing well. What is it about the "modern rocker" that is so different from what was around many years ago when most kneeboards were 5' 5" and under?

Scott

[hart]

Hi Scott,

When I was a kid and buffed for a manufacturer called McGrigors (in Brookvale) I had to run the Showroom..take all the off-the-street enquiries to support my salary (c. 1974)

Every surfer that came in would take a stock board and put it up against their own height and say "This isn't six foot..coz I'm six foot and this is nowhere near as tall as me!" But they were wrong.

What they didn't realise was that a six foot board WILL NOT stand six foot off the ground because a shaper measures the length WITH the curve on the bottom..like a six-o will stand SHORTER than a six foot tall surfer.

(Please allow something here, because I think that US shapers measure from their decks..but I'm not sure..which may create yet another anomaly).

So, when thinking about length..you've got to think about 'the true length'..irrespective of curve..which won't be truly representative of the height that the board stands above ground. (Hope I'm making sense).

The point that I'd like to make is that the greater the curve, the SHORTER the board will stand off the ground..

So if I shape a 5' 6" now..with my contemporary curves, it will in fact, stand SHORTER than a 5' 6" from 1970..off the ground..know what I mean? It's like I would be shaping shorter!

So, to compensate for a modern rocker, I have to go longer even just to give the surfer the same amount of board in the water that he is used to..So if he DOESN'T go longer..he is going backwards..so to speak.

I'm 6'3" and 200lbs..and rode 5' 6"s all my life as a kid..although I was lighter..never wore flippers.

My shorties now are 5' 10" and I can assure you that I feel no compromise for length..like nothing..I still ride a total shortboard and believe my boards are still as loose as those that I rode as a kid (albeit in a different sense)..BUT..I do have more drive because I have more rail..and bottom..and curve.

This is why I say that my boards now CANNOT be compared in length to the early slabs that I rode..because it is about comparing apples with oranges..and never the twain shall meet.

Just to confuse this issue a little more..and given that I have no idea what US shapers (or other OZ ones for that matter) are doing with their bottom curves..then it almost becomes impossible (with any degree of accuracy) to even compare what I'm doing to anyone else in even a modern sense..

It is in fact, all completely relative..but if you do nothing else, please don't be afraid of length..providing your shaper isn't afraid of curve.

Regards,

hart.

[Ted]

Thanks -Bruce Hart! Iam finally clear on the length issue!I get it! Such a great point on measurment.Thanks-Ted

[jonny]

im 6"2' and around 95 kilos,....and i ride just under a 6 fter. Im not surfing bigger stuff anymore, trying to get fit and back into it first lol, so im simply surfing normal summer waves around Newie...so i dont necesarily need the size...

My concern has always been paddling / weight?? how do you guyz go being so tall on 5''8/9' s ? do you have thicker boards, rocker or is it just something to get used to ?. Had a 5"7' when i was younger but just figured as i got older and slower i just needed to get bigger boards ??... ?

jonny..

[lowrider]

thanks Bruce,
didn't know about the measuring off the bottom thing!
My Flashie measures 5'8 & three quarters on top and
5'10" bottom.
Still can't get my head around the 6 foot plus though,
when five ten will handle just about anything we get here.
I guess the 'sweet spot' moves forward too and the extra length isn't
noticeable in small increments.
cheers
Andy

[lowrider]

There goes my 'Elvis Theory' of kneeboard design..

[Jack Beresford]

When I surfed my first US Championships - back in '86 at Sebastian Inlet - the organizers measured every kneeboard because it was against the rules to ride a board over 6'0 - probably an effort to keep standups from just riding their regular boards in our division.

Eric Shoelkopft shaped a lot of boards in the 6 to 7 foot range in the late 80s - a lot of the California guys wrote him off as crazy. He is a little crazy but his shapes work just fine.

[Ler]

I was at that contest in 1986. I was told I had a great time.

[Beeline2.0]

..

[surfhorn]

Hart - You're right about measuring the length of the board on the bottom. US shapers do it just the same way..when they measure out a new shape, it is done on the bottom of the blank - thus, following the curve--or rocker- -of the blank.

BTW - Jon went into the shaping bay on Saturday but I haven't had a chance to talk to him about his new KB. I did stop by his house on Thursday and he had his 5'10" full outline template.......made out of tar paper...... tacked to his wall.

Now, thats what I call art!!!

-Dan

[hart]

Dan,

Imagine when you draw an outline on a blank and then cut the crap out of it to create your bottom curve..you can, in fact, increase it!

So many bloody variables.

And how is Jon's template?..I reckon he's done a great job..really progressive stuff..so stoked to see that he's into it the way he is. And it is about Art..because "beauty is in the eyes of.....you and me"

And Ler..hope to meet you one day, coz I've had so many people say to me that "you looked like you were enjoying yourself so much" that in the end, I couldn't even remember who they were.

Stay tuned..and stay curved..there is no such thing as a straight line, in Nature.

hart.

[surfhorn]

Jon used Freeline's shaping bay and his own template but Freeline owner John Mel has almost 40 years of templates at the factory. There are full length templates and small, tail templates - some of the first fish and swallow tail outlines from '69-'70.

In the past, I would use a bit of this template for a nose outline then a different template for the tail -- mix and match---back when I did a bit of shaping. But I didn't have the time to dedicate to mowing foam so I had John shape all my KBs because I'd rather have a great KB to ride than a sketchy homegrown model that I had shaped.

Developing a long term relationship with a dedicated shaper is one of the best things a KBer could do.

[DarcyM]

Jack wrote:

When I surfed my first US Championships - back in '86 at Sebastian Inlet - the organizers measured every kneeboard because it was against the rules to ride a board over 6'0 - probably an effort to keep standups from just riding their regular boards in our division.

6 feet? That's pretty generous. I remember a contest (maybe an NSSA?) where our boards were measured and they were supposed to be under 5' 8". I remember that because my board, which I thought was 5' 7" was right at or just over the size limit (maybe the guy was measuring the bottom with the rocker curve adding length? can't recall exactly). Anyway, I was ready to take a saw and chop off an inch on the nose, but he let me slide. There was a stand-up in that contest too, competing on his short board. They usually did ok, but were never as good as the best kneeboarders, no matter what they were riding.

I always thought that 5' 9" was about my limit, but I'm thinking more and more about going longer if the board can keep the looseness. I'm trying out one of Eric's boards now ... it flies and is super loose! A really nice board.

LER -
we've got pictures of your great time posted on the 'net ....

[Ler]

Even in the fog. I made to the final and we had to though a few heats. In the first minute of the final, I got a interferce with bro, I went left on a right, no surprise there, for suring my 5th or 6th place. I bought home plastic and did a Live interview with some T.V. crew with both back pockets with beer in em and my hand behind my back with a opened tall dog. The other kneelo bros throw buckets of ice on us, it was classic. I don't if Jack was in on it, but I know Barry and Phil were.