why are modern Kneeboards so BIG!!Why even kneeboard?

[john -]

Hey surfhorn - why wouuld you go the tri/thruster set up for the freight train?

Im still comming to grips with oranges v apples debate depending on who makes the board - but im assuming Bud - who must qualify as the most regular freight train driver/maker seems to advocate quads - for the speeed

On DP websight he offers tris for "the next overseas trip" from aust - bigger fins perhaps?

a penny for ye thoughts - or anybody elses for that matter - im currently cutting and pasting a pithy statement review from the quad v tri debate - to be posted soon

dorje

[john -]

just rechecked David Parkes's site- he suggets the quad for the away game - not the tri as i thought above

so surfhorn - tell tell tell

dorje

ps. some hours later - Surfhorn having been trolling the quad question thread and found your answer to my question i think - something to do with a bottom turn - anyway you might have a knew spin on it

[surfhorn]

I've just spent the winter riding my first long quad kneeboard after coming out of retirement. Now I want more KBs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Previous to my 4 year lay-off (to rebuild the strength in my ankles), I rode a 5'8" double wing swallow thruster...but with the front two fins moved up to just under the area that corresponded with my ankles. That 5'8" was the culmination of KBing since the mid 1960's: single fins, fish and then thrusters. Old KBs were very short and very narrow - no float to carry one over the flat sections. So, with a big flex single fin, a KBer could take super steep drops and go way out into the flat, load up energy in the fin then punch a bottom turn, slingshoting down the line. All those positive Gs sure felt good.

So thats where I was coming from when I went to this quad. The 6'0" length is giving me a lot of speed down the line but I'm not able to take the straight drops into the flat and load up for a super square bottom turn. Also, the quad doesn't seem to have the ability to get in a quick pump up high on the wave face, past verticle and just under the lip. It feels like, if I did, my tail would break loose. I think Jon Manns is in the same boat with his new fin forward tri.

But I found the 6'0" quad to be killer on my trips to Southern California. I was all over the waves from 3' - 8'. I think it comes down to where one lives. Santa Cruz has a really strong push that, most times, has a bump or surge in it whereas SoCal is smoother and doesn't have that push. Maybe it has to do with warm water.....just don't know. All I know is that the quad has worked better in SoCal than in NorCal.

The quads width (22 3/4") and wide rounded tail enables me to surf smaller, weaker waves well than I ever have before and, for that, I am truly stoked. If I traveled, I would definitely take the quad with me......I can even standup surf it when I want to just mess around.

I've been speaking with my shaper (John Mel of Freeline - who, by the way, just returned from 3 weeks in Fiji. After riding my quad, he shaped and took an identical board to my 6'0" quad and is super stoked on the performance of the design. 3 weeks in Fiji is a pretty nice working vacation, eh?!).

John & I are going to take the 6'0" length and design a thruster for the Santa Cruz area. I will go with a swallow tail and will go back to my fin placement ideas from previous years: back fin in traditional standup board postion but pushed up just a bit and the two, front fins by my ankles.

The way I determined fin/ankle placement was by stripping my KBs of wax and taking measurements while kneeling in the wells that I've pounded into the boards. I've been working with fin placement pretty serioiusly since around 1984 and can smell that breakthrough just ahead!
Riding a 6'0" KB has opend my eyes.

So, how's that for a short answer? Its really funny. Here I am, just turned 51 y/o, and I am as stoked as a 13 y/o with a new KB under the tree on Christmas morning.

Go figure....

All the best luck,
Dan

[Beeline2.0]

..

[eqKneelo]

I had only BLAST AUSSIE TRI's from 6'0 to 6'7", but Bud convinced me to go with a 6'3" F2K to replace my 6'7", and it was a GREAT move. I like the performance of the Tri's, but the quads really hold in and give you a lot of confidence when it's scary big.
EQ

[stemple]

EQ,

I am convinced that its bud's quad fin placement that gives that positive feeling of hanging tight when its steep and deep. My parkes quad with its fin placement slightly farther forward and slightly tighter fin cluster doesn't have quite the feeling of strong holding ability on steep faces (but it still does it pretty darn well!!!). The compromise is that the tighter fin layout is a bit looser off the top when the wave is softer and less vertical. I think you need to have one or more of each type. I got two new boards coming from Mr. Hart, a 6'0 tri small wave board and 6'3" tri pintail bigger wave board. I can't wait to ride and compare. I thinking the tri will be slightly looser all around how they will hang on the vertical face I do not know. These boards are going to be wide, just like me, around the 24" width spec. My stubb is that wide and I have been riding it in everything up to 8 to 10 foot. I traded with Don a few weeks ago and it was a hoot. When he sat on it nearly floated him out of the water. I am sure it felt like a massive cork to him. He caught some waves on it and told me he even caught a bit of air with it.

[kneemor]

I just got my flashpoint 6'x24"wide swallow and it just plain rips. Feels like a 5'10".

[surfhorn]

On Bud's boards, the quad fins are set up a bit differently than the California quads we make. While we have our four fins set near each other, Bud has placed the rear set of fins closer to the stringer.

I believe that the rear fins are 3 3/4" from the rail at the leading edge and 2 3/4" from the rail at the trailing edge.

I made sure to carry a small tape measure at the US Champioinships last November.................

[stemple]

surfhorn,

check out this picture to see the different fin layout.

album_showpage.php?pic_id=1217

california quad?

[DrStrange]

I think Bud's angles are different on fins too. But in my mind its hard to separate out one or even one group of variables (i.e fins) from all the rest, as Hart mentioned. It's all a unified piece in the water and every part has effect on every other and the total is how it rides...

[surfhorn]

Stemple -

I'm calling it a California Quad since we went with John Mel's fish tail quad design, which has the fins towards the tail, much like a traditional standup quad. I've just moved the fins forward, combining the lines and fin set up of my old thruster and also with the Aussie placement in mind.

I played around with fins pushed forward - with the smaller set almost up to my knees - back in 1984-86. ...but on a 5'5" KB. Today's longer lengths really open up new avenues to pursue.

Also, California Quad is just a temporary (maybe) name that I'm using as I create new names/logos for the series of KBs that are being created. I'm a public relations specialist and this just gets my creative juices flowing!!!

This really reminds me of when I was working with John back in the 70's and 80's and everything was new and experiemental. Every board was an exciting, new trip.

Lookin' forward to that big Southern Hemi on Sunday!

-Dan

[toofast]

dorje...I have never ridin a board over 5-6... Don`t take this wrong, but when I was learnning how to kneeboard, the 5-6 was fine. A couple of yrs later,in `78, I had my first board shaped. It was 5-3. I was surfing at salt creek and broke the half the nose off. Time for a new board. Thinking on the same lines of a surf boards, smaller is looser and I wanted something looser. The next board was 4-9. I rode the same waves, same places and had alot more fun. I can`t deni that there have been times that I would have like to be on a little bigger board. There has been many times that I have dropped in a really steep wave and when I went to turn,my board just slide sideways down the face and looking up at the lip and saying,oh sh*t,this is going to hurt..
I broke one of the swallow tails off yrs later.Off to get another board made. Another 4-9.I Up until lately,all the kneeboarders I saw were riding swallow tails. I talked with the shaper that shaped my last 4-9 about what he thought how about a "pin-tail" kneeboard. He told me that it should be looser. I bought a blank from him and off to the garage I went. I came out with a 5-0 pin tail. It`s looser then the 4-9 All of the boards I have ,I have a fin box put in them so I can have some control of how loose the boards are.
At 44 now, my first board that I had shaped (5-3) hangs in the garage with all the fun times it reminds me of. I go back and forth between the other 2 boards.
Again,I don`t mean to afend anybody who rides a longer board then I do. We have choices and I choose short boards.
As soon as the pictures my boards are ready, i`ll post them.

[stemple]

no offense taken here too fast. I would suggest giving some of those longer boards a try before you totally discount them. There will also be a contest in SC in the fall where you get to see and potentially ride all types of boards. An open mind might just bring new levels of stoke to old surf hounds.

[john -]

Toofast what are you apologizing about?????????

Kneeboarders are inherently thick skinned creatures anyway – perhaps less so after the recent kerfuffel regarding kneepad purchases – but that was the point, were they a kneelo???

Anyway, you seemed to have been the one who coped some flack, via the punters for being open about your board length choices – But I loved it – it’s the Irish Tibetan mix in my mind stream – we looove debates and left field stuff (as long as the field is green)

Imagine mixing Guinness stout and Chang beer!!!!! Picture a leprechaun telling surf stories to the Bopa of Tsang (4000meters above sea level) All drunk and very silly.

Did you know that Tibet had the best beach front in Asia until India bumped into it – now instead of waves just mountains – still find fossilized sea creatures however.

Toofast I ask you - does size matter?!

The most Sacred mountain in the world is not the tallest!

I have the luxury of sitting here with a copy of the Australian Surfers Journal featuring the article “Kneeboarders – An Endangered Species

Turning to page 18 we find the dimensions of Velo S.S. MKII - Length 5’ – George Greenough’s ride - there are photos of gg flying on this thing in 4 to 6’ surf

I have another Surfers Journal with an article titled GG’s scrapbook - more pics of Velo in good surf being quite an acceptable craft

If long boards are the rage for stand ups you could be the person who retros the short kneeboard

Toofast - God’s speed and good luck

dorje

ps - being lazy however, I myself will increase in length with vintage- easier to paddle my good man!!

[willli]

ever wonder how much length is used just bringing our boards to a point at the nose? suppose we used a bodyboard type nose and got rid of a foot or so?
way back when I had a Webber ski with the scooped out deck to put some flex in the nose my fav place to ride had some nasty pilings and rocks on the inside. this is before leashes. the short of it is the board got pinned and 2' of nose snapped off. Didn't have another board so I tossed the nose, peeled off the glass flaps and paddled back out. bets were being taken in the line up as to whether I would a) survive the drop b) actually make the bottom turn c) wipe and lose the rest of the board in the same way. Surf was a solid 6' and the inside bowl was nasty. Needless to say, other than some odd spray, the board ripped as if nothing had happened.
I think a kneeboard with a mal nose and a big teardrop concave would be a hoot, and it would be short too!